杏MAP导航

By Roberto Cetera

There’s something extraordinary about the passion, clarity, and energy with which the former Israeli Prime Minister, 79-year-old Ehud Olmert, passionately defends his deeply held political beliefs about the current situation in Israel and the Middle East. Right at the start of an interview with Vatican Media, Olmert says: "I completely agree with the words of 杏MAP导航 Francis. The Catholic Church has a great leader, the only true global leader advocating for peace and a new humanism. If he reads this interview, I would like him to know that there isn’t a day when I don’t pray for him and for his full recovery. Not only the Church, but the whole world needs him."

President Olmert, what is happening in Israel?

What’s happening is that our country is going through the deepest internal crisis in its entire history. And this is the result of polarization - which might be a global phenomenon - but here it’s been particularly fueled by the government of Benjamin Netanyahu and his extremist allies on the religious nationalist right. I’ll be honest: As a Jew and an Israeli, I feel deep shame every time I hear the arrogant and threatening words of Ministers Ben Gvir and Smotrich.

When you talk about a deep crisis, are you referring to the ongoing protests in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv?

Yes, but not just those. It’s clear that the majority of Israelis now want the war to end, the hostages to be returned, and the Netanyahu government to go. This government is in the minority in the country. But there’s also a deep crisis within the institutions. Think about the appointments: Netanyahu keeps changing ministers, generals, and judges at will, as if the state were his personal property. He’s always looking for someone more loyal. For example, think about the story of the leadership change in the intelligence services. First, he fired the head of Shin Bet, Ronen Bar, thinking he could appoint someone more loyal, but then a photo appeared of the appointee participating in a protest against the government, and three hours later, that appointment was canceled. Or think about the law limiting the powers of the judiciary and the Supreme Court. Or the case that led to the arrests of two of the prime minister’s aides in the so-called Qatargate. The threats to press freedom, including the proposed privatization of the public TV channel ‘Kan 11’. Or the stubborn refusal to set up an independent inquiry commission on October 7th. Netanyahu sees enemies everywhere.

President Olmert, are you saying that Israel is heading toward autocracy?

I believe that Israel is still a democratic country. The fact that I, as a former prime minister, can say these things to you in an interview is proof of that. As are the massive protests against the government. However, I must admit that Israel is no longer the democracy it once was—the democracy we were proud of around the world. The country of Rabin, Shimon Peres. From the old guard, only Ehud Barak and I still hold that vision of a democratic Israel.

Does this situation reflect on the war in Gaza, which continues relentlessly and claims more victims?

Yes. And unfortunately, there seems to be no end in sight. Even Trump’s initial peace efforts seem to have been buried. I think, and I hope, that sooner or later, Trump - who doesn’t exactly excel in patience - will tire of this government’s warlike stubbornness. For now, Netanyahu stays close to Trump for one simple reason: he’s the only one who still listens to him, while the rest of the world has lost confidence in him and the way Israel is conducting the war. But it’s really hard to make predictions. After all, unpredictability is one of the constants in this country’s political history. Remember when Begin became prime minister? In the West, they said an ex-terrorist from the Irgun had come to power, but then Begin was the one who returned the Sinai to the Egyptians at Camp David, earning the Nobel Peace Prize. And what about the ‘hawk’ Sharon? The only Israeli prime minister who withdrew from Gaza, evacuating 21 colonies and thousands of settlers.

Fifty thousand dead: Is what’s happening in Gaza, as some say, genocide?

I’d say no. Because the atrocities we’re seeing in Gaza are not the result of a premeditated plan to exterminate the Palestinian population. If there’s no intention, there’s no genocide. In fact, I’ll tell you, a large part of these casualties are due to the way Hamas conducts the war, hiding its militants in tunnels, buildings, and alongside civilian homes. That doesn’t change the fact that this war has been excessively destructive, with many innocent victims.

You keep saying that the majority of Israelis, about 80%, want the war to end. But polls also show another conflicting fact: 70% don’t want to hear about the "two-state solution," and a vote in the Knesset even confirmed this. You were the prime minister who came closest to this solution without achieving it. Why do you continue to support it so strongly? 

You see, they call me a utopist and accuse me of wanting to make peace with enemies. But I respond: of course, peace is made with enemies, not with friends. Are the Palestinians our enemies? Yes, I agree: so it’s with them we must make peace. 70% don’t want it? Well, I’m happy that 30% do. We’ll grow, gain support - first 10%, then another, and another - until we become the majority. And you know why I’m so confident? Simply because there is no alternative to the "two-state" solution. If anyone thinks that, apart from the ridiculous and unrealistic idea of mass deportations, there is a credible alternative to two states, let them say it. I don’t know of any. And I think the plan I worked on in 2006 with Abu Mazen is still viable today, with some small adjustments. I had the opportunity to present it to 杏MAP导航 Francis, when he received me along with my partner in this battle, former Palestinian Foreign Minister Nasser Al-Kidva. But exactly because I’m not a utopist, I’m fully aware that today, the two-state solution requires, first and foremost, a change in leadership on both sides. And I have great faith in 杏MAP导航 Francis’s spirit of peace.